Post by CW .org .info .net on May 16, 2014 21:02:25 GMT -6
The State of WCPW
Oct 16, 2007, 11:34pm
From "Life Is A Work " (a VWAA guy posting anonymously):
We can all agree wcpw is not what it use to be. we all know the crowds it drew, the stars it made,
and the stars it brought in. we all know for the past few years, whatever passion there was in wcpw
seemed to just disappear. looking at shows now and then, then it was for pride and passion, now it
seems to be more for money. now, i dont mean the wrestlers. they bust their ass, but the people in
charge of advertising, video production, and the like is piss poor, no one can argue that. it seems
like they collect the gate, and thats all they care about, while the wrestlers are out working their
ass off. it is a shame that you have to wait a year or two to get a copy of their biggest show.
now, if sam had pride and passion in his product, wouldnt he want to expand it? produce dvds, update
the website regularly, and all that jazz? i mean look at belts this year. they brought in four tna
guys and they all went over. what does that say about your own wrestlers? you couldn't even have
larry frickin zybysko take the pin on 2 fingers? thats ridiculous and makes your wrestlers look
crappy, hands down. joe cant go to a time limit? or even daniels? all it would do would bring boz
and abaddon up higher in the peoples eyes, and isnt that what you want for the future of the
company? apparently not.
and what does it say when nearly all your champs leave? how much did those belts really mean to them?
and now you have the vwaa, basically what wcpw should and could have been. they have more shows booked
already for the rest of the year then wcpw seems to have had all year. their production is top notch,
and they are producing characters, a nice mix of old school and new school wrestling.
now i dont necessarily agree with their sal dinero or b33. they are obvious inside jokes that no
little kid would get. it reminds me of the horrible days of the huckster/nacho man/gillberg, but
even a smaller group will be in on the sal/b33 joke. thats my only gripe as vwaa has distanced themselves
and severed ties, which i applaud. i dont necessarily agree with the ragging that some of the people of
vwaa post about on wcpw, except for frankie, who ive never read anythng where he bashed them just to
bash them, at least to my knowledge. vwaa guys should leave wcpw in the past and not bring them up at all,
cause then you are only reminding people about wcpw. start anew, talk about vwaa, thats where your future is,
not in the past. what happened when wcw would talk about what was going on in wwf/e? people changed channels.
now by no means is wcpw like raw in its heydey. but did vince ever talk about wcw?except for the huckster stuff,
which was god awful, he focused on his product, instead of bringing attention to another fed.
and back to wcpw. i think the "titantic"-ish jumping of wrestlers off the wcpw showed sam and the rest that
the company will die if they dont do something. theyve been producing more stuff online, finally,
putting older matches up so fans can know the wrestlers, advertising better, and pushing an angle with this
austin roberts debut. obviously, at least to me, they are trying to change.
now my question is, is it too late? did sam and the rest wait too long to right the ship? only time will tell.
personally i would love wcpw to achieve the success it use to have. good competition means only better shows
for us wrestling fans. it will only make vwaa and the other feds work that much harder to outdue wcpw.
i dont think sam will post or do an interview. i wouldnt be surprised if he didnt. my thinking is,
actions speak louder than words. sam could say all he wants on here, but its what happens at his shows
and to the once great wcpw that will show his true side/feeling/intentions.
i just wonder how sam can justify and explain why over half his roster and most of his champs walking out on him?
what possible positive spin could he put on that? because i certainly doubt he would take responsibilty for all
the negatives going on in the company.
imagine if cena, jeff hardy, murdoch and cade, plus half the roster just left. wouldnt its fans, the ones not so
"in the know", wonder what the hell happened?vnow i know wcpw isnt on the same level as number of fans as the wwe.
but there are hardcore wcpw fans, ive seen that at every show i attend. dont they deserve an explanation?
shouldnt the people that fill his pockets with their hard earned cash, who come see and cheer their favorite wrestlers,
get some kind of reason why their favorite wrestler is suddenly gone?
but the question is, does sam care about that fan? that fan that help pay for his vacations, cars, and the like.
the next wcpw should be really interesting, roster wise, match wise, and direction wise.
wow, just say wcpw is on its last leg, and say iwa is too, for different reasons.
who would have thought two of the biggest chicago area promotions could be on the verge of extinction?
From Danny Dominion:
Well, I can add here. I started w/ Sam in 92. No regrets at all...I learned a lot starting there and hung around
for 5 years or so, until I got sick of the "others are on the outside looking in" theory.
Back in 92, we had a show every week. Quickly, it became a show a month if we were lucky. we werent allowed to
work for anyone else within a 60 mile radius of chicago. Having many offers to work for other promotions and having
Sam say no when we werent working in front of a crowd got old. You can only get so much better training in a school
and not in front of paying customers. This sparked guys like myself to stand up and take action.
Sam was "THE" game in town in the late 80's throughout the 90's. Sam had many opportunities laid in front of him
yet decided it was too much work or hassle to deal with it, so here we are in 2007 and IMO, I bet sam will be done
within 6 months.
Lets face it, Sam had a great run here in chicago and the community should be thankful for him.
Yet, the biz isnt what it used to be and Sam is not a young man. He has a big family and
wrestling isnt his #1 priority. Sam will not be here personally to address this, but I am sure he will make a
statement on the behalf of his company soon.
From Steve Cain (referee):
I also remember him saying one time in a meeting not too long after he got married how the promotion would be
passed down to his kids. I would be willing to put myself on the line and say that will not be happening.
Not a knock, just a statement of fact based on what has happened over the years.
From Lilith (of VWAA):
A few things to address...
The only person who has bashed WCPW openly on this board is our dear old (slightly insane) ref. BobbyJ.
If you haven't quite caught on, BobbyJ is a few sandwiches short of a picnic, not the brightest crayon in the box,
not the shiniest penny in the fountian... you see where I'm going with this.
A majority of the VWAA roster has put their days at the company behind them and have kept quiet on the board for
that reason. We all had our reasons for leaving, some are personal, some aren't. I highly doubt you will get much
of an answer where it concerns the choices and reasoning that the workers had for leaving.
Think about this, there are two sides to every story and it seems that a majority of the readers want to know not
only the status of one company's future, but also what led to people leaving and a new company being formed and
their future plans as well. If an interview is conducted with Sam himself, or a representative from WCPW about
their status, perhaps an interview should also be conducted with the owners of the VWAA.
From Frost:
I'm not going to rag on the WCPW, I happened to have been a very big fan of WCPW/UAPW.
I stopped going to the shows after the last Belts. It just seemed to me that Sam stopped caring about
how the fans felt. The first thing was that he constantly booked TNA wrestlers and had them go over the
WCPW wrestlers. I would have liked to see a show that just featured the WCPW/UAPW stars, and if he had
to bring in other wrestlers, bring them in from the local indy feds.
My last straw was when he (or whoever mad this decision) switched the title holders around with
ZERO explanation for it. Dameon Dunn and Rockett were suddenly the UAPW tag champions without
ever beating Isaias Velazquez and Mike Anthony, Gavin Dunn was the Middleweight Champion and they never
explained how he got it (Anthony was stripped due to an injury), Rudo was the UAPW Inner City Champion
and he never beat Rockett for it. He then shut the old WCPW messageboard down for reasons only known to
him (and those involved w/ the board)....
It made no sense, didn't Sam think anyone would notice? Did he care? As a fan, I felt that was like a
slap in the face. Like he felt the fans were too stupid to notice or that we would continue to come
no matter what he did. I can't speak for anyone else, but I stopped caring for his product after that....
From Abaddon (who went on to become Austin Roberts):
I can say this, as a WCPW worker for the last 7 years and a close friend of Sam DeCero,
I will mention this to him. I can't say he will choose to come on the board and respond to all of this!!
I can say that WCPW will be around for a long time!!! We have had workers leave in the past and we still keep going!!
We are doing our best to pick up the slack in all angles of the business!! With the addition of
Bad Boy Brett Sanders [ Real Name Don Bean ] we have not only an outlet for one of the best trainers around
but we also have the use of B3 Productions, which have produced all the new online videos, with many more to come!!
We still have some of the best talent in Chicago:
Steve Boz
Gavin Dunn
Jeff Luxon
Mike Anthony
Vito Fontaine
Adams Evans
Diego Corleone
Sean Mulligan
etc.......
We will also be bringing in top Chicago talent for the WCPW roster to work!!
So as the saying goes "Not Going Away", I say believe it!!
Come check us out on Oct. 26th and see for yourself!!!
From " Northern Indy:"
steve boz, works everywhere,
gavin dunn, mostly rpw
jeff luxon, ?
mike anthony, walls dont impress me
vito fontaine, retired supposedly
adam evans, works everywhere
diego corleone, really works everywhere
sean mulligan, good
so who does wcpw have that is really for just them? no one seems to want to stay there,
and from what ive heard in the past, abaddon hates-jated it there just as much as anyone.
b3 procuctions i havent heard of but maybe thats something. it was good for its time now go
out to pasture where you belong wcpw. yuo have no future you just cant admit it.
your owner is too proud to admit loss or to know when its over. so long
From Danny Dominion:
Not like the days of the Manson Brothers, The Hollywood Hardbodies Steel and Dominion, Iron Mike Sampson,
KC Knight, The Untouchables, Mad Maxx(John...who was f*cking awesome)
The origional International Males(Kevin quinn D. Dominion, Brett Sanders and christopher daniels).
That was a stacked roster back then.
From Hammett One (who became Mr.450 and now went on to New Japan, All-Japan, Zero-1):
yea, boz works everywhere, but will remain faithful to sam and windy city because thats where he started.
I know this being a good friend of Boz. Gavin works alot of places too, if you knew anything about RPW,
you should know that it has only ran 4 times. So, how can he mostly be RPW?
?
He works Windy city every show as well, for the most part. Gavin is there to stay too.
Jeff Luxon is a good worker too, If you know the scene, you know Jeff Luxon.
Just because they, meaning the trainers didnt think it was a good idea for you to work there,
doesnt mean the place sucks and its going under. Good luck trying to put Sam out of business.
Remember, its not ONLY Sam who decides on who wrestles for Windy City, the trainers do as well.
So get off the "I hate WCPW" bandwagon and go work elsewhere.
From B3 (who is Brett Sanders / Don Bean, who Sam made booker and in charge):
or "since Bret Sanders returned he made a lot of enemies which made people wanna leave which one is it."
So why exactly have enemy's been made because I came back? when I returned to help out I probably
knew 3 or 4 people from the past one who I pretty much taught A LOT to in 2000- 01 & another who would
have never been back if it wasn't for me back in 00-01. They are no longer with us but GOOD LUCK to them.
as far as everyone else I did nothing but treat them with respect even stepped back when was asked to
step up just so others could be happy.
Before I came back when was the last time you were able to see this much promoting for a WCPW show & such.
So in every business you need to "TRIM THE FAT" you lose good people & you lose bad people. So let's stop
all the BITTERNESS there are alot of indy's around if WCPW isn't you taste then watch something else.
BUT I GUARANTEE MONSTER BASH WILL BE A DIFFERENT WCPW. REMEMBER THE BELTS WITH ROAD WARRIOR HAWK?
IF YOU DO YOU THAN YOU KNOW THAT I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING & HAVE ONLY GOTTEN BETTER WITH AGE.
SO WHETHER YOU LIKE ME OR HATE ME, I'M STILL GONNA TURN THIS F***ER AROUND!
WOW! STEVE CAIN THE DEAN OF REFEREE'S I KNOW YOUR NOT PERSONALLY COMING @ ME! IF IT WASN'T FOR WINDY CITY
YOU WOULD STILL BE TAKING RINGSIDE PICTURES IN YOUR MEMBERS ONLY JACKET & COMB OVER,
REMEMBER WHERE YOU CAME FROM "not so fresh" BAG! IT'S GUY'S LIKE MYSELF, DANIELS, QUINN, ANTHONY, BOZ,
TERRY ALLEN,ETC. THAT TAUGHT YOU WHAT YOU KNOW & U STILL ARE THE DRIZZLING SH*TS.
IT KILLS ME THAT GUY'S LIKE YOU THAT HAVE NEVER TAKEN A DECENT BUMP IN THEIR LIFE LET ALONE ON A
NIGHTLY BASIS CAN ASK SOMEONE ABOUT AN INJURY,WHILE YOUR AT ASK ME ABOUT BOTH KNEES & MY NECK,
I SACRIFICED A LOT FOR A DREAM & ITS ARMCHAIR WORKER'S( & I USE WORKERS VERY LOOSELY) LIKE YOU THAT
DRIVE ME NUTS. I SAID BEFORE GOOD LUCK TO EVERYONE THAT ARE DOING THEIR OWN THING,
WELL I'M DOING THE WCPW THING & IF THE PAST TWO DAYS HAVEN'T SPOKEN FOR THEMSELVES & NOW WE HAVE A BIG BUZZ GOIN.
SO STEVE YOU CAN KISS THE BABY! CAUSE I'M DONE WITH GUY'S LIKE YOU! YOUR AN AFTER THOUGHT,
A LEFT OVER NUGGET IN THE TOILET BOWL OF LIFE.
& FOR KNOBBSISMYHERO
why has someone waited so long to turn WCPW around? If I'm right you've been with WCPW for a few months now.
You want to claim how B3 productions will help WCPW but I ask, why didn't it help you guys when you had something
close to 40 people at a school like Maine South? You should have gotten close to 200 people there easily
with high school kids. What happned to promoting that event? Cuase I didn't see anything except a post ont his board.
MONSTER BASH IS THE STARTING POINT. I WAS JUST A FLY ON THE WALL,I WAS ONLY HELPING WHEN ASKED.
SO STOP LIVING IN THE PAST MY FRIEND YOU DONT HAVE TO LIKE US BUT WERE NOT GOING ANYWHERE.
From Frankie Valiant (who got mad at Sam and staged a mass exodus from WCPW and formed VWAA):
Yes,.. even the VWAA is willing to help the WCPW stay on track. As they say, competition is what keeps things fresh,..
right? So, here is our offer. If you bring the same WCPW coupon to our Halloween show on the 27th at the
VWAA Industrial Studio, we also will give you that $3.00 off our admission,.. but,.. to help with WCPW sales,
hopefully, if you bring the coupon along with your WCPW ticket stub, the VWAA will give you a total of
$5.00 off admission making our admission only $5.00. Talk about a deal!!! $12.00 to see 2 great independant
wrestling promotions.
From JJR (JJ Drake, one of the Drake Bros, who promoted tournament shows, called the I-8 or Illinois 8):
The reason why I backed him up is because in my eyes he is a classy guy. This is from a post a few weeks back.
Several months back I was at Terry Allen's house and I was getting ready to leave and he was like hang on a
second I got something for you. He pulled out on old promo pic circa 1995 of one of my favorite wrestlers of
all time, "Bad Boy" Bret Sanders or "B3" to you youngsters. TA was like I found it when I was going through
some stuff and he decided to give it to me, so when I got home I had to put on my refrigerator like it was
an A+ paper, my wife tries to take it down all the time.
A few months later while attending WCPW BOTB, I got to see him get inducted into the WCPW Hall of Fame.
And then back in July I was given the heads up that he would be at the 1st RPW show, so like a little
8 year old I brought the promo pic and got it autographed and we chatted for a few minutes.
Then at the past WCPW show in Hobart, we were able to chat again.
B3 came up to me and started to chat with me. He didn't have to, but he did.
And I know that there are a more then a few that has some kind of heat with the Dean.
That is why I stuck up for him.
From Steve Cain (referee):
I know you and Frank have talked and I am glad for that. First off, if you read the post you are referring to carefully,
there was no apology to me or any worker on here, just an apology to the fans for them having to read what was written.
Second, I do not bash the product, there are many of my friends that are still over there and I can sit down with any
of them over a meal and we are cool with each other. Anything I have ever said about Sam DeCero is from discussions
I have had with him over the years. I also know through sources of my own what has been said about me over the years.
I don't care since I work basically every weekend at one show or another.
Finally, as Frank will tell you, he is not my boss. He asked me to come on board as family and help make the shows
there quality. I work other places, even in the Chicago area and I am not exclusive to any one company. I would get
bored if I were in that position again. All I care about is that I have enough write offs at tax time to make this
all worthwhile.
From Danny Dominion:
1:46 am............... Sorry, I started this post before 1am when others chimed in.
I'm not pulling what I said about Cain. He has become more than annoying just like the good ole days.
Always liked Steve...still do, but he deserves retribution. If workers/promotions want to talk smack about each other,
it should be allowed. Those within the biz should be allowed for many reasons IMO.
It also sparks interest in the site...wink wink....
Dean(Steve Cain) You are starting to get on peoples nerves!! You could use a few "cheap plugs" on that head of yours.
Shouldnt you be hanging out at a "Puppetry of the Penis" show? You arent a mod here, so keep your alterior motives
to yourself. CPW asked for a response and he got one. Go to the show and find out what it is. I would suggest that
WCPW allows this response to be taped for a youtube linked post here though for the shill. Even if it is put up say
a week or two later so the show still draws from it. Dont be mad because WCPW fired you bro. What about your shill
on every post you have? Quit being the tattle tale kid everyone hated in grammar school.
"Remember, Paxil(and other anti-depressants) may cause you a sense of well being, use may also lead to low or no
sex drive, decreased sperm count, half-hard or no erections, delusions of grandure and diarrhea of the mouth."
Sanders is a class act and I'm sure a damn good trainer if anyone is wondering, as is "all that and a can of pringles"
Steve Boz.
Sam is old school and doesnt like to break Kay Fabe, which is a great quality now-a-days. He keeps the Wizard of the
wizard of oz behind the curtian which is what made pro wrestling fun. Sam's other reasoning can be questioned by those
who work for him though IMO.
By the way, I'd happily extend my hand to conduct/mediate this debate, for I believe I would be impartial yet spark
some responses out of each group. No cutting corners w/ Brutally Honest DD around. Actually, I may throw in a few
of my own to help both groups point/counterpoint. My minor in college was Public speaking and always aced debates.
My professor always made me take my opposing view later on to challenge me.
Being against the legalization of marijuana was a tough one, even though I havent smoked any in about 10 years.
Lets get this going.
From Capt Charisma (shit-stirrer, possibly Ben Jordan or Vito Thomaselli):
Should Steve Cain really be chiming in on a discussion of legitimate feds when he has been circling the indy
toilet bowl of lousy feds like IUWA and "Really Good Wrestling". At the last RGW show, Cain stole the mic from the
commissioner Stan Pain, was cutting promos on him and then took it again at the end of the night when the commish was
trying to set up the main for the next show. When the heels lifted a fist to Cain, he didn't back down,
instead tried to be a tough guy. Cain don't know how to be a ref. A good ref is not noticed by the fans.
A bad ref cuts promos and tries to be the center of attention. Steve is just another guy who could never
be a legit worker so he has to hang around the business in whatever role he can get just so he feels like
he's part of the business. Nobody takes Steve serious. Just ignore him. He's really fat now anyways.
Ok, I will clear it up.
1) Steve Cain is known to many workers as "The Dean of Blowing Matches".
He usually messes up the finishes to the matches.
2) Steve grabbed the mic on 2 occassions at the RGW show and bullied the heels in the match.
I don't care if he's 400lbs, if you are a ref, you don't act like a physical tough guy to the workers.
If he had threatened to disqualify the heel or pointed to his shirt as being the authority and the heel
would be fined if he touched the ref, then that is great. To clench his fists and threaten to hit the
heel back shows that after "17 years" Steve still doesn't get it.
3) IUWA has a roster full of workers with cheap gimmicks or no gimmicks. A roster where a majority of
the workers do not have legit gear or boots. Why act surprised that anyone would bash IUWA?
It's not like they don't have along history or mess ups. Who can forget the owner doing a fire spot
and not having fire extinguishers ready and putting himself in the hospital and endangering the crowd?
If that don't earn them "indy toilet bowl" status, I don't know what does.
4) RGW. They had a ring that was literally falling apart. If a worker hit one side of the ropes,
the other side of the ring came off the ground 3 feet. Even one of the workers shot on the ropes during the show.
They could not decide if they wanted live mic commentary during the show and the matches would start for
5 minutes with no commentary and then all of a sudden the commish would start house mic commentary
during the middle of the match. They used a wrestler that was 110lbs. They had no crowd barriers.
The sound system was horrible. They used the main lobby entrance as the workers entrance so the crowd
had to sit through an almost 3 hour show with no access to public washrooms or the vending machines.
Since RGW did not sell anything to eat or drink, the vending machines in the main lobby were the only food
and drink for the night and nobody was allowed to get to them. I guess that's a good thing cuz if you filled
up on food and drink, you couldn't get to the bathrooms anyways. The whole set up and execution of the
show was terrible.
Is that enough example for you?
From Stan Pain:
What? What? We didn't have bathrooms, concessions, crowd barriers, a separate entrance for the wrestlers,
and what else?
Crack kills, people...
Everything else, well..
From Chris Kowalsky (the guy who owns the Chicago Pro Wrestling message board):
I've already mentioned twice I had no problem with your thoughts on Steve because you gave specifics.
You're reaching with IUWA's lack of gear and a botched spot 5 years ago. RGW's lack of production and
execution are legit concerns and you make a good case but frankly, unless I'm interpreting it wrong
you have a lousy attitude. Equating VWAA and Vigilante with "yarders" in another thread is trolling
and that won't be tolerated here.
You will get more of a response if you present your critiques in a less abrasive manner.
From Captain Charisma:
A fed should not be running unless they have the money to put on a professional production.
That includes gear and ringside equipment. Someone post a link to IUWA's page.
Look at their roster and the gear or lack of it. My point will be clear. It's not a 5 year old argument.
There problems exist to this day. It's why they don't draw.
Oct 16, 2007, 11:34pm
From "Life Is A Work " (a VWAA guy posting anonymously):
We can all agree wcpw is not what it use to be. we all know the crowds it drew, the stars it made,
and the stars it brought in. we all know for the past few years, whatever passion there was in wcpw
seemed to just disappear. looking at shows now and then, then it was for pride and passion, now it
seems to be more for money. now, i dont mean the wrestlers. they bust their ass, but the people in
charge of advertising, video production, and the like is piss poor, no one can argue that. it seems
like they collect the gate, and thats all they care about, while the wrestlers are out working their
ass off. it is a shame that you have to wait a year or two to get a copy of their biggest show.
now, if sam had pride and passion in his product, wouldnt he want to expand it? produce dvds, update
the website regularly, and all that jazz? i mean look at belts this year. they brought in four tna
guys and they all went over. what does that say about your own wrestlers? you couldn't even have
larry frickin zybysko take the pin on 2 fingers? thats ridiculous and makes your wrestlers look
crappy, hands down. joe cant go to a time limit? or even daniels? all it would do would bring boz
and abaddon up higher in the peoples eyes, and isnt that what you want for the future of the
company? apparently not.
and what does it say when nearly all your champs leave? how much did those belts really mean to them?
and now you have the vwaa, basically what wcpw should and could have been. they have more shows booked
already for the rest of the year then wcpw seems to have had all year. their production is top notch,
and they are producing characters, a nice mix of old school and new school wrestling.
now i dont necessarily agree with their sal dinero or b33. they are obvious inside jokes that no
little kid would get. it reminds me of the horrible days of the huckster/nacho man/gillberg, but
even a smaller group will be in on the sal/b33 joke. thats my only gripe as vwaa has distanced themselves
and severed ties, which i applaud. i dont necessarily agree with the ragging that some of the people of
vwaa post about on wcpw, except for frankie, who ive never read anythng where he bashed them just to
bash them, at least to my knowledge. vwaa guys should leave wcpw in the past and not bring them up at all,
cause then you are only reminding people about wcpw. start anew, talk about vwaa, thats where your future is,
not in the past. what happened when wcw would talk about what was going on in wwf/e? people changed channels.
now by no means is wcpw like raw in its heydey. but did vince ever talk about wcw?except for the huckster stuff,
which was god awful, he focused on his product, instead of bringing attention to another fed.
and back to wcpw. i think the "titantic"-ish jumping of wrestlers off the wcpw showed sam and the rest that
the company will die if they dont do something. theyve been producing more stuff online, finally,
putting older matches up so fans can know the wrestlers, advertising better, and pushing an angle with this
austin roberts debut. obviously, at least to me, they are trying to change.
now my question is, is it too late? did sam and the rest wait too long to right the ship? only time will tell.
personally i would love wcpw to achieve the success it use to have. good competition means only better shows
for us wrestling fans. it will only make vwaa and the other feds work that much harder to outdue wcpw.
i dont think sam will post or do an interview. i wouldnt be surprised if he didnt. my thinking is,
actions speak louder than words. sam could say all he wants on here, but its what happens at his shows
and to the once great wcpw that will show his true side/feeling/intentions.
i just wonder how sam can justify and explain why over half his roster and most of his champs walking out on him?
what possible positive spin could he put on that? because i certainly doubt he would take responsibilty for all
the negatives going on in the company.
imagine if cena, jeff hardy, murdoch and cade, plus half the roster just left. wouldnt its fans, the ones not so
"in the know", wonder what the hell happened?vnow i know wcpw isnt on the same level as number of fans as the wwe.
but there are hardcore wcpw fans, ive seen that at every show i attend. dont they deserve an explanation?
shouldnt the people that fill his pockets with their hard earned cash, who come see and cheer their favorite wrestlers,
get some kind of reason why their favorite wrestler is suddenly gone?
but the question is, does sam care about that fan? that fan that help pay for his vacations, cars, and the like.
the next wcpw should be really interesting, roster wise, match wise, and direction wise.
wow, just say wcpw is on its last leg, and say iwa is too, for different reasons.
who would have thought two of the biggest chicago area promotions could be on the verge of extinction?
From Danny Dominion:
Well, I can add here. I started w/ Sam in 92. No regrets at all...I learned a lot starting there and hung around
for 5 years or so, until I got sick of the "others are on the outside looking in" theory.
Back in 92, we had a show every week. Quickly, it became a show a month if we were lucky. we werent allowed to
work for anyone else within a 60 mile radius of chicago. Having many offers to work for other promotions and having
Sam say no when we werent working in front of a crowd got old. You can only get so much better training in a school
and not in front of paying customers. This sparked guys like myself to stand up and take action.
Sam was "THE" game in town in the late 80's throughout the 90's. Sam had many opportunities laid in front of him
yet decided it was too much work or hassle to deal with it, so here we are in 2007 and IMO, I bet sam will be done
within 6 months.
Lets face it, Sam had a great run here in chicago and the community should be thankful for him.
Yet, the biz isnt what it used to be and Sam is not a young man. He has a big family and
wrestling isnt his #1 priority. Sam will not be here personally to address this, but I am sure he will make a
statement on the behalf of his company soon.
From Steve Cain (referee):
I also remember him saying one time in a meeting not too long after he got married how the promotion would be
passed down to his kids. I would be willing to put myself on the line and say that will not be happening.
Not a knock, just a statement of fact based on what has happened over the years.
From Lilith (of VWAA):
A few things to address...
The only person who has bashed WCPW openly on this board is our dear old (slightly insane) ref. BobbyJ.
If you haven't quite caught on, BobbyJ is a few sandwiches short of a picnic, not the brightest crayon in the box,
not the shiniest penny in the fountian... you see where I'm going with this.
A majority of the VWAA roster has put their days at the company behind them and have kept quiet on the board for
that reason. We all had our reasons for leaving, some are personal, some aren't. I highly doubt you will get much
of an answer where it concerns the choices and reasoning that the workers had for leaving.
Think about this, there are two sides to every story and it seems that a majority of the readers want to know not
only the status of one company's future, but also what led to people leaving and a new company being formed and
their future plans as well. If an interview is conducted with Sam himself, or a representative from WCPW about
their status, perhaps an interview should also be conducted with the owners of the VWAA.
From Frost:
I'm not going to rag on the WCPW, I happened to have been a very big fan of WCPW/UAPW.
I stopped going to the shows after the last Belts. It just seemed to me that Sam stopped caring about
how the fans felt. The first thing was that he constantly booked TNA wrestlers and had them go over the
WCPW wrestlers. I would have liked to see a show that just featured the WCPW/UAPW stars, and if he had
to bring in other wrestlers, bring them in from the local indy feds.
My last straw was when he (or whoever mad this decision) switched the title holders around with
ZERO explanation for it. Dameon Dunn and Rockett were suddenly the UAPW tag champions without
ever beating Isaias Velazquez and Mike Anthony, Gavin Dunn was the Middleweight Champion and they never
explained how he got it (Anthony was stripped due to an injury), Rudo was the UAPW Inner City Champion
and he never beat Rockett for it. He then shut the old WCPW messageboard down for reasons only known to
him (and those involved w/ the board)....
It made no sense, didn't Sam think anyone would notice? Did he care? As a fan, I felt that was like a
slap in the face. Like he felt the fans were too stupid to notice or that we would continue to come
no matter what he did. I can't speak for anyone else, but I stopped caring for his product after that....
From Abaddon (who went on to become Austin Roberts):
I can say this, as a WCPW worker for the last 7 years and a close friend of Sam DeCero,
I will mention this to him. I can't say he will choose to come on the board and respond to all of this!!
I can say that WCPW will be around for a long time!!! We have had workers leave in the past and we still keep going!!
We are doing our best to pick up the slack in all angles of the business!! With the addition of
Bad Boy Brett Sanders [ Real Name Don Bean ] we have not only an outlet for one of the best trainers around
but we also have the use of B3 Productions, which have produced all the new online videos, with many more to come!!
We still have some of the best talent in Chicago:
Steve Boz
Gavin Dunn
Jeff Luxon
Mike Anthony
Vito Fontaine
Adams Evans
Diego Corleone
Sean Mulligan
etc.......
We will also be bringing in top Chicago talent for the WCPW roster to work!!
So as the saying goes "Not Going Away", I say believe it!!
Come check us out on Oct. 26th and see for yourself!!!
From " Northern Indy:"
steve boz, works everywhere,
gavin dunn, mostly rpw
jeff luxon, ?
mike anthony, walls dont impress me
vito fontaine, retired supposedly
adam evans, works everywhere
diego corleone, really works everywhere
sean mulligan, good
so who does wcpw have that is really for just them? no one seems to want to stay there,
and from what ive heard in the past, abaddon hates-jated it there just as much as anyone.
b3 procuctions i havent heard of but maybe thats something. it was good for its time now go
out to pasture where you belong wcpw. yuo have no future you just cant admit it.
your owner is too proud to admit loss or to know when its over. so long
From Danny Dominion:
Not like the days of the Manson Brothers, The Hollywood Hardbodies Steel and Dominion, Iron Mike Sampson,
KC Knight, The Untouchables, Mad Maxx(John...who was f*cking awesome)
The origional International Males(Kevin quinn D. Dominion, Brett Sanders and christopher daniels).
That was a stacked roster back then.
From Hammett One (who became Mr.450 and now went on to New Japan, All-Japan, Zero-1):
yea, boz works everywhere, but will remain faithful to sam and windy city because thats where he started.
I know this being a good friend of Boz. Gavin works alot of places too, if you knew anything about RPW,
you should know that it has only ran 4 times. So, how can he mostly be RPW?
? He works Windy city every show as well, for the most part. Gavin is there to stay too.
Jeff Luxon is a good worker too, If you know the scene, you know Jeff Luxon.
Just because they, meaning the trainers didnt think it was a good idea for you to work there,
doesnt mean the place sucks and its going under. Good luck trying to put Sam out of business.
Remember, its not ONLY Sam who decides on who wrestles for Windy City, the trainers do as well.
So get off the "I hate WCPW" bandwagon and go work elsewhere.
From B3 (who is Brett Sanders / Don Bean, who Sam made booker and in charge):
or "since Bret Sanders returned he made a lot of enemies which made people wanna leave which one is it."
So why exactly have enemy's been made because I came back? when I returned to help out I probably
knew 3 or 4 people from the past one who I pretty much taught A LOT to in 2000- 01 & another who would
have never been back if it wasn't for me back in 00-01. They are no longer with us but GOOD LUCK to them.
as far as everyone else I did nothing but treat them with respect even stepped back when was asked to
step up just so others could be happy.
Before I came back when was the last time you were able to see this much promoting for a WCPW show & such.
So in every business you need to "TRIM THE FAT" you lose good people & you lose bad people. So let's stop
all the BITTERNESS there are alot of indy's around if WCPW isn't you taste then watch something else.
BUT I GUARANTEE MONSTER BASH WILL BE A DIFFERENT WCPW. REMEMBER THE BELTS WITH ROAD WARRIOR HAWK?
IF YOU DO YOU THAN YOU KNOW THAT I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING & HAVE ONLY GOTTEN BETTER WITH AGE.
SO WHETHER YOU LIKE ME OR HATE ME, I'M STILL GONNA TURN THIS F***ER AROUND!
WOW! STEVE CAIN THE DEAN OF REFEREE'S I KNOW YOUR NOT PERSONALLY COMING @ ME! IF IT WASN'T FOR WINDY CITY
YOU WOULD STILL BE TAKING RINGSIDE PICTURES IN YOUR MEMBERS ONLY JACKET & COMB OVER,
REMEMBER WHERE YOU CAME FROM "not so fresh" BAG! IT'S GUY'S LIKE MYSELF, DANIELS, QUINN, ANTHONY, BOZ,
TERRY ALLEN,ETC. THAT TAUGHT YOU WHAT YOU KNOW & U STILL ARE THE DRIZZLING SH*TS.
IT KILLS ME THAT GUY'S LIKE YOU THAT HAVE NEVER TAKEN A DECENT BUMP IN THEIR LIFE LET ALONE ON A
NIGHTLY BASIS CAN ASK SOMEONE ABOUT AN INJURY,WHILE YOUR AT ASK ME ABOUT BOTH KNEES & MY NECK,
I SACRIFICED A LOT FOR A DREAM & ITS ARMCHAIR WORKER'S( & I USE WORKERS VERY LOOSELY) LIKE YOU THAT
DRIVE ME NUTS. I SAID BEFORE GOOD LUCK TO EVERYONE THAT ARE DOING THEIR OWN THING,
WELL I'M DOING THE WCPW THING & IF THE PAST TWO DAYS HAVEN'T SPOKEN FOR THEMSELVES & NOW WE HAVE A BIG BUZZ GOIN.
SO STEVE YOU CAN KISS THE BABY! CAUSE I'M DONE WITH GUY'S LIKE YOU! YOUR AN AFTER THOUGHT,
A LEFT OVER NUGGET IN THE TOILET BOWL OF LIFE.
& FOR KNOBBSISMYHERO
why has someone waited so long to turn WCPW around? If I'm right you've been with WCPW for a few months now.
You want to claim how B3 productions will help WCPW but I ask, why didn't it help you guys when you had something
close to 40 people at a school like Maine South? You should have gotten close to 200 people there easily
with high school kids. What happned to promoting that event? Cuase I didn't see anything except a post ont his board.
MONSTER BASH IS THE STARTING POINT. I WAS JUST A FLY ON THE WALL,I WAS ONLY HELPING WHEN ASKED.
SO STOP LIVING IN THE PAST MY FRIEND YOU DONT HAVE TO LIKE US BUT WERE NOT GOING ANYWHERE.
From Frankie Valiant (who got mad at Sam and staged a mass exodus from WCPW and formed VWAA):
Yes,.. even the VWAA is willing to help the WCPW stay on track. As they say, competition is what keeps things fresh,..
right? So, here is our offer. If you bring the same WCPW coupon to our Halloween show on the 27th at the
VWAA Industrial Studio, we also will give you that $3.00 off our admission,.. but,.. to help with WCPW sales,
hopefully, if you bring the coupon along with your WCPW ticket stub, the VWAA will give you a total of
$5.00 off admission making our admission only $5.00. Talk about a deal!!! $12.00 to see 2 great independant
wrestling promotions.
From JJR (JJ Drake, one of the Drake Bros, who promoted tournament shows, called the I-8 or Illinois 8):
The reason why I backed him up is because in my eyes he is a classy guy. This is from a post a few weeks back.
Several months back I was at Terry Allen's house and I was getting ready to leave and he was like hang on a
second I got something for you. He pulled out on old promo pic circa 1995 of one of my favorite wrestlers of
all time, "Bad Boy" Bret Sanders or "B3" to you youngsters. TA was like I found it when I was going through
some stuff and he decided to give it to me, so when I got home I had to put on my refrigerator like it was
an A+ paper, my wife tries to take it down all the time.
A few months later while attending WCPW BOTB, I got to see him get inducted into the WCPW Hall of Fame.
And then back in July I was given the heads up that he would be at the 1st RPW show, so like a little
8 year old I brought the promo pic and got it autographed and we chatted for a few minutes.
Then at the past WCPW show in Hobart, we were able to chat again.
B3 came up to me and started to chat with me. He didn't have to, but he did.
And I know that there are a more then a few that has some kind of heat with the Dean.
That is why I stuck up for him.
From Steve Cain (referee):
I know you and Frank have talked and I am glad for that. First off, if you read the post you are referring to carefully,
there was no apology to me or any worker on here, just an apology to the fans for them having to read what was written.
Second, I do not bash the product, there are many of my friends that are still over there and I can sit down with any
of them over a meal and we are cool with each other. Anything I have ever said about Sam DeCero is from discussions
I have had with him over the years. I also know through sources of my own what has been said about me over the years.
I don't care since I work basically every weekend at one show or another.
Finally, as Frank will tell you, he is not my boss. He asked me to come on board as family and help make the shows
there quality. I work other places, even in the Chicago area and I am not exclusive to any one company. I would get
bored if I were in that position again. All I care about is that I have enough write offs at tax time to make this
all worthwhile.
From Danny Dominion:
1:46 am............... Sorry, I started this post before 1am when others chimed in.
I'm not pulling what I said about Cain. He has become more than annoying just like the good ole days.
Always liked Steve...still do, but he deserves retribution. If workers/promotions want to talk smack about each other,
it should be allowed. Those within the biz should be allowed for many reasons IMO.
It also sparks interest in the site...wink wink....
Dean(Steve Cain) You are starting to get on peoples nerves!! You could use a few "cheap plugs" on that head of yours.
Shouldnt you be hanging out at a "Puppetry of the Penis" show? You arent a mod here, so keep your alterior motives
to yourself. CPW asked for a response and he got one. Go to the show and find out what it is. I would suggest that
WCPW allows this response to be taped for a youtube linked post here though for the shill. Even if it is put up say
a week or two later so the show still draws from it. Dont be mad because WCPW fired you bro. What about your shill
on every post you have? Quit being the tattle tale kid everyone hated in grammar school.
"Remember, Paxil(and other anti-depressants) may cause you a sense of well being, use may also lead to low or no
sex drive, decreased sperm count, half-hard or no erections, delusions of grandure and diarrhea of the mouth."
Sanders is a class act and I'm sure a damn good trainer if anyone is wondering, as is "all that and a can of pringles"
Steve Boz.
Sam is old school and doesnt like to break Kay Fabe, which is a great quality now-a-days. He keeps the Wizard of the
wizard of oz behind the curtian which is what made pro wrestling fun. Sam's other reasoning can be questioned by those
who work for him though IMO.
By the way, I'd happily extend my hand to conduct/mediate this debate, for I believe I would be impartial yet spark
some responses out of each group. No cutting corners w/ Brutally Honest DD around. Actually, I may throw in a few
of my own to help both groups point/counterpoint. My minor in college was Public speaking and always aced debates.
My professor always made me take my opposing view later on to challenge me.
Being against the legalization of marijuana was a tough one, even though I havent smoked any in about 10 years.
Lets get this going.
From Capt Charisma (shit-stirrer, possibly Ben Jordan or Vito Thomaselli):
Should Steve Cain really be chiming in on a discussion of legitimate feds when he has been circling the indy
toilet bowl of lousy feds like IUWA and "Really Good Wrestling". At the last RGW show, Cain stole the mic from the
commissioner Stan Pain, was cutting promos on him and then took it again at the end of the night when the commish was
trying to set up the main for the next show. When the heels lifted a fist to Cain, he didn't back down,
instead tried to be a tough guy. Cain don't know how to be a ref. A good ref is not noticed by the fans.
A bad ref cuts promos and tries to be the center of attention. Steve is just another guy who could never
be a legit worker so he has to hang around the business in whatever role he can get just so he feels like
he's part of the business. Nobody takes Steve serious. Just ignore him. He's really fat now anyways.
Ok, I will clear it up.
1) Steve Cain is known to many workers as "The Dean of Blowing Matches".
He usually messes up the finishes to the matches.
2) Steve grabbed the mic on 2 occassions at the RGW show and bullied the heels in the match.
I don't care if he's 400lbs, if you are a ref, you don't act like a physical tough guy to the workers.
If he had threatened to disqualify the heel or pointed to his shirt as being the authority and the heel
would be fined if he touched the ref, then that is great. To clench his fists and threaten to hit the
heel back shows that after "17 years" Steve still doesn't get it.
3) IUWA has a roster full of workers with cheap gimmicks or no gimmicks. A roster where a majority of
the workers do not have legit gear or boots. Why act surprised that anyone would bash IUWA?
It's not like they don't have along history or mess ups. Who can forget the owner doing a fire spot
and not having fire extinguishers ready and putting himself in the hospital and endangering the crowd?
If that don't earn them "indy toilet bowl" status, I don't know what does.
4) RGW. They had a ring that was literally falling apart. If a worker hit one side of the ropes,
the other side of the ring came off the ground 3 feet. Even one of the workers shot on the ropes during the show.
They could not decide if they wanted live mic commentary during the show and the matches would start for
5 minutes with no commentary and then all of a sudden the commish would start house mic commentary
during the middle of the match. They used a wrestler that was 110lbs. They had no crowd barriers.
The sound system was horrible. They used the main lobby entrance as the workers entrance so the crowd
had to sit through an almost 3 hour show with no access to public washrooms or the vending machines.
Since RGW did not sell anything to eat or drink, the vending machines in the main lobby were the only food
and drink for the night and nobody was allowed to get to them. I guess that's a good thing cuz if you filled
up on food and drink, you couldn't get to the bathrooms anyways. The whole set up and execution of the
show was terrible.
Is that enough example for you?
From Stan Pain:
What? What? We didn't have bathrooms, concessions, crowd barriers, a separate entrance for the wrestlers,
and what else?
Crack kills, people...
Everything else, well..
From Chris Kowalsky (the guy who owns the Chicago Pro Wrestling message board):
I've already mentioned twice I had no problem with your thoughts on Steve because you gave specifics.
You're reaching with IUWA's lack of gear and a botched spot 5 years ago. RGW's lack of production and
execution are legit concerns and you make a good case but frankly, unless I'm interpreting it wrong
you have a lousy attitude. Equating VWAA and Vigilante with "yarders" in another thread is trolling
and that won't be tolerated here.
You will get more of a response if you present your critiques in a less abrasive manner.
From Captain Charisma:
A fed should not be running unless they have the money to put on a professional production.
That includes gear and ringside equipment. Someone post a link to IUWA's page.
Look at their roster and the gear or lack of it. My point will be clear. It's not a 5 year old argument.
There problems exist to this day. It's why they don't draw.